The GWSRR is an invitation only forum of influential people assembled to discuss issues of importance and share these views with the public. The program is an initiative of Chairman, Adjunct Professor Jim Taggart and WSBA. The theme for February 2014 GWSRR was How To Take Your Business To New Markets and it was sponsored by Know My Business. Below is an edited transcript of the session.
Jim Taggart: Well good morning everyone and a special thank you to Know My Business for sponsoring this Round Table. As you all know the subject of this Round Table is How to Take Your Business to New Markets. It’s really great to see so many talented people here and I am really looking forward to this exchange. I’m going to start with in introductions if I may; Anthony I’ll start with you, if I may.
Anthony Moss: Hi I’m Anthony Moss. I’m currently the Chairman of the Sydney Hills Business Chamber. I’ve been on the Board of the Chamber for the last 3 years – 4 years maybe – a couple of years as Deputy and just assumed the Chairmanship from the beginning of this year. There’s 300 members in our group, in the Hills. You all know us. We’re all local. That’s my after-hours job. My 9 to 5 job is running my own business which is called: Lead your industry which is a management consulting business for high growth SMEs in the 5 to 50 million dollar turnover range, really helping them to develop new strategic plans, particularly with a focus in expanding into international markets. And I’ve been in that space for 9, 10 years. Prior to that, I ran a business in the US for 10 years and worked in the UK and EU as well. So that’s me.
Kerry Reeder: Hi. I’m Kerry Reeder. I’m from the Penrith Valley Chamber of Commerce. I’ve only been there a short time – only nearly three months. And we’re having a bit of change within the Chamber and trying to progress. So my actual background in business is mainly marketing. I’ve worked for fast moving consumer goods – Coca Cola, Sydney Markets, Pharmaceuticals, Animal Health. So I’ve got quite a diverse background in large business as well as small business when I had my own marketing company as well. So that’s me.
Hardeep Girn: I’m Hardeep Girn, Managing Director for Know My Business. The company’s been operating for 3 years. It’s based in the Hills District. The focus for Know My Business is business introductions and that is for small, medium and large sized organisations. It doesn’t just operate within the Hills District. We have clients across Sydney, across different parts of Australia, as well as now coming in from overseas. We help businesses with defining what their value proposition is, understanding what their ideal client looks like, and looking to replicate that for them by way of targeted introductions. And those are within our own existing network as well those that we reach out to and introduce on their behalf. The background has been working within the Australian market for the last 14 years or so, but also has included the UK market and the United States for 3 years. The last thing I’ll just mention is the strategy that we have taken to market is having business chambers assist by way of representation into newer territories – something that we’ll talk about today.
Jim Taggart: And again, thank you - on behalf of Access and myself personally, thank you for sponsoring today and we look forward to developing our relationship further.
Hardeep Girn: No. I appreciate you guys putting it all together. And I think we’ve got a great attendance here with a great topic to talk about.
Jim Taggart: OK. Thank you, Hardeep. Gary.
Garry Turner: I’m Garry Turner. I’m the General Manager for Sales and Operations at a company called AUSvance. We specialise in small business finance. It’s unique finance in that it’s unsecured, short term. And our main product is cash flow lending – lending against customers’ turnover through their EFTPOS terminal. So it’s quite unique. We’re based in Parramatta, but cover national. We’re also a division of an international company. So we’ve been in Australia since 2008, growing dramatically since 2010 and looking into expand in new markets over the next 2 years.
Jim Taggart: Thanks very much, Garry. John.
John Scilly: Yes. John Scilly, Senior Project Office with Trade & Investment NSW, which means I’m a Public Servant, second coming. And I just wanted to put a little rider there. But it’s the second time I’ve come back to the Public Service. And you’d think once was enough. But that’s not the case. My background is 40 years in business, running businesses large, small, or financial services, banking, transport, engineering, professional services – the whole gig. My main objective right now is to engage all of Western Sydney. My brief is to engage Western Sydney in as many networks and associations and stakeholders as I can find, the main reason for that being that we’ve got an election coming up. And of course, Western Sydney becomes flavour of the month as soon as an election’s called. Everybody discovers it or rediscovers it and there’s money around. But thanks, Jim, for the opportunity of coming along and for the opportunity of coming along today because I’ll be interested to hear what everybody has to say, and I’ll have a bit to say as well.
Jim Taggart: OK. Great. Thanks, John. Lori?
Lori Modde: Lori Modde. I’m the current Manager of Community, Economic Development and all things events at the Hills Shire Council at the moment. I’ve been there for close to 8, 9 months, again returning to the Public Service – very similar to John, except I had an 11 year break where I ran my own business. So I was in State Government prior and tried Local Government his time. Yeah, really keen to hear what everyone’s got to say. But I think there’s an element here in my title which is – I’d like to just put on the table – which is about the integration of community which I think in business we too often forget. And yeah, really pleasing that the Hills has sort of been a bit of a leader in that combination, because you know in my outside of hours work, I’ve got 3 volunteer jobs that I hold up. And that is crucial to business.
Kevin Yau: Yes.Well I can testify to that, because we just recently had the Lions Convention at Castle Hill RSL and we held a Civic Ceremony – the Mayor – and Lori helped to facilitate that. So that was a good week.
Lori Modde: It was an awesome combination.
Jim Taggart: Thank you, Lori. I’ll get you in a minute, Kev. David?
David Pring: Thanks Jim. Hi. David Pring. I’m the Managing Partner for KPMG in Western Sydney. We’ve had the doors open in Western Sydney now for 4 weeks, so it’s a new time for us. But I think it’s the right time to be back in Western Sydney. I’ve spent 15 years working in Western Sydney in other guises. But I guess KPMG’s approach into Western Sydney is to help companies to grow and help companies to change – be that to maximise profit, change their business models, buy, sell, etc. All the parts of the business that they tend to do occasionally; we can help them with because we’ve seen it quite often. And of course, we can also help them with confidence to know that all of their tax audit compliance issues are dealt with as well.
Jim Taggart: Thank you David. Craig.
Craig Hingston: Jim, thanks for the opportunity today. I’m Craig Hingston. Firstly my role is President of the Cumberland Business Chamber which has been going for nearly 30 years and occupies that space south of the Great Western Highway all the way down to Liverpool. The big industrial area that we’ve got is the biggest industrial hub in the southern hemisphere and so we’re predominantly industrial focussed – engineering, manufacturing, materials handling and so on. The other day job is industrial marketing and PR which I’ve been doing for the last 22 years.
Jim Taggart: Thank you Craig. Kevin?
Kevin Yau: My name is Kevin Yau. I run a law firm – a full service law firm. We do everything except for tax law. That’s something we choose not to get involved in. We’ve got offices in the Hills, Bankstown as well as in the city. And basically – my background essentially was – I came out – I worked with the Attorney Generals, then I went into Funds Management of all things and then came back out into Legal Services. We also have a Project Management Division whereby we look at raising funds to invest in various projects, be it property development, buying farm land and so on. So we assist our clients to do that.
Jim Taggart: Kevin, thank you. It’s been great. And I think people now have got an appreciation of what people do. Let’s start. So let’s throw it open. We’re looking at markets and the whole notion of markets. Your people today, and yourselves, are working in various types of markets. So I’m going to ask you how do you think – what is a market to you guys? And I’m going to be more specific; do we really know, as business people, what market we’re in?
Michael Walls: Hasn’t it changed with technology. That’s one of the things I keep thinking of is the way that we define a market; be it in the media market or the tourism market or whatever. There now is the notion that someone can sit in the garage with a laptop come up with an idea that taps into any market that covers all markets with one application or one function or app and is successful.
Craig Hingston: Jim, I think maybe we could define it as a sphere of influence or opportunity. So if you consider the fact that you are trying to transfer a product or a service from point A to point B, point of origin to the end user, and that product or service is relevant to a group geographically, demographically, then that’s an area of opportunity and you work in an area of influence to try to affect the people in that realm to conduct the transfer.
Michael Walls: That’s very much a PR approach Craig, isn’t it? Almost a PR model?
Craig Hingston: Yeah, I agree.
Jim Taggart: I’m going to go to John first, if I may – then to you, Anthony.
John Scilly: I was just going to be a bit contentious; when you said: What is a market? I sort of looked at my marketing experience and I tried to crystallise that to all the different things that I’ve sold and marketed over the years down to one thing. And I don't know whether this is right. And I’ve just said: it’s an environment in which a business operates where it can sell products or services to make profits; full stop.
Jim Taggart: I think that’s a very good overview of it - because I was going to shoot to KPMG – because if I said: No, they’re an accounting firm, Dave would say: You don't know my business. I would think he’d say that. Alright? I’m just saying. So, in order of priority – Anthony?
Anthony Moss: I was going to say that there’s really some interesting things about markets. There’s a sense of visible markets and a sense of if we thought of a confectionery market, for example. We can do research and we can define that, you know, Australia buys $2 billion worth of confectionery and this is how, you know, the trends are. The trends are in going for more sweet stuff or less sweet stuff – all those sorts of things. They’re highly visible markets. But the really interesting markets are those where we don't have that visibility. So if you think about – you know – there’s a classic example is the iTunes concept. There was no market before iTunes before it was invented, was there really? And yet, is that a market? Of course it’s a market. So it’s the difference between fulfilling a recognised need and identifying an unrecognised need. And I think – the other point I want to make – so I think there’s some value in businesses exploring those 2 potentials – existing markets and potential markets. And any other thing is I think that you kind of flip that question around which was: what business are you in. And that’s really about point of difference and how we differentiate ourselves in approaching a particular market.
John Scilly: Well on that point, Anthony, I would throw a suggestion out here now and say that a large of number of businesses I talk to don’t know what market they’re in. They’re trying to operate in a market which quite frankly they’re no good at operating in. And I wonder if you can take the extension of that is: should Australia have ever been in the automotive market. Probably in hindsight you’d probably say “no”. But there are all sorts of pretty good reasons why you did that. I think we had a discussion at … only a month or so ago saying: Where does Australian manufacturing – what markets do they go into now? And the short answer is – general consensus was: They look for niche markets which nobody else wants to play around in, where we’re very good at playing around in, which is high profit stuff and high tech stuff. And that’s the area that they see that Australian manufacturing may well be directed in – towards, anyway. Australians are great updaters of new technology. And one of the issues we’ve got – one of the things I’m looking at right now, is how we get more SMEs involved in high tech stuff. And I’m talking about 3D printing. I’m talking about Laser Cutting.
Anthony Moss: Through the Chamber we’ve done a lot of research. We’ve been looking for the key pain points, the burning bridges, and one of the ones that keep appearing is the need to move into – for want of a term – advanced manufacturing.
John Scilly: That's right.
Anthony Moss: And this fear of moving into advanced manufacturing. And sometimes the business community needs a leader that it can follow. And at the moment they don’t seem to have many champions that they can identify and learn from.
John Scilly: The State Government’s going to be one.
Jim Taggart: We’re going to talk about that later on this morning. Kev, I was interested because you’re a lawyer and a very successful lawyer in terms of the growth of your business in its markets. But within that, there’s a subset of property development and a whole range of other things. I’m interested in that from the perspective of markets in a traditional sense.
Kevin Yau: So moreso in the project division of what we do. Our market essentially in the project space is to look for projects with a return for our investors and our clients, and also something that they’re familiar and comfortable with in terms of their investment profile. So we probably have about a dozen very high net worth clients that we look after. And their experience can be from property development to manufacturing to retail space. So they’re normally looking to invest in areas that they have a bit of background in and they feel comfortable in understanding. And we try to facilitate that process within Australia. So our market really is defined by the experience of our clientele – trying to match what they want with what’s available out there. So it’s moreso a matching process.
Jim Taggart: In the context of what you just said, can I ask you this question? Do markets change behaviour in business? Does it change the behaviour of how you internally run your business?
Michael Walls: Are you saying the person dictates the market or the market conditions dictate the behaviour?
Jim Taggart: Michael, my question is that we’re always trying to explore and look for markets. But I’m just simply saying really – and I look at the ages of most of you around here with respect – and I mean that in terms of business – has your behaviour changed in looking for new markets in the way you conduct yourself? And I’m really interested why KPMG came to Parramatta, because I think they’re looking for a market. That’s my own view.
Kevin Yau: Just on that point, in the legal services game people that come through the doors into our firm are a lot more educated now. It’s not a case of you’re holding their hand throughout the process. I mean in some circumstances, they even know the answer before they come and see you – especially the more sophisticated clients. And they’re actually testing you to see whether you know what you’re talking about. And once they get that rapport, they go: OK. Well this bloke knows what he’s doing. I mean if you look at a topic like Family Law, for example, you just Google it and you can – within an hour – you could find out how it works from start to finish. So hence, our level of service needs to be at the top notch, because information is freely available to everyone nowadays. So we try to separate ourselves on the level of service and making sure that the client is looked after at all times, because information and the way that we used to operate in terms of, you know, I guess withholding information and trying to keep the client, you know, happy along the way, that doesn’t work anymore. So you’ve got to be straight to the point – short, sharp and focussed on the service aspect, because that’s what really differentiates yourself in the professional services game.
Jim Taggart: And why I was saying that – thank you – because I was really alluding to some of those characteristics if you like of the change in behaviour within the markets that we do in terms of education, the quality of your staff and a whole range of other types of things. David, I’m going to shoot to you, OK, and then to Kerry if I may, and then to Garry.
David Pring: I think there’s a couple of things, you mentioned does market change behaviour. I think one of the things that we now are thinking about is not only what are we selling, but what is it that the customer is buying. And quite often what the customer is buying is something very different to what we think we’re selling. We always think of, in product, in terms of technical capability or why it’s – you know, why it’s technically superior. Quite often the customer is buying confidence, an insurance policy, peace of mind, all sorts of other things. And I think unless you focus on the buyer in the market as opposed to you as a seller, there can be quite a disconnect. Because there is so much information around, the buyer can get so much of the information on the technical aspects etc, but they can’t figure out if you care until you actually meet them.
Jim Taggart: I think that’s an excellent point. If I can just say, in marketing theory they call it – the big term they talk today is what’s called the “user experience”. So there are – it was never an experience when I was growing up buying something in a market. I mean, you just bought it. You didn’t think about it. But today, there’s a whole experience.
Hardeep Girn: A good example to that is knowing consumer behaviour or predicting consumer behaviour is in a lot of industries become more commoditised. Restaurants are a good example. I mean if you’re going to have, a meal at one restaurant as opposed to another restaurant, it’s based upon not just the price of how much the food is, but it’s also that experience of what they’re walking into – the level of customer service, the proximity – and I think that applies to every single business. There has to be that unique factor on why anybody would do business with you. And that allows you to get further into your market.
Jim Taggart: And Hardeep, we’re going to talk about price later on – about the importance of price. Kerry, your thoughts about markets – just what’s been basically said at the minute?
Kerry Reeder: I think people – like lots of people – say: You have to look outside the box. And from my experience at Sydney Markets, having targeted 33 different cultures through our Community Relationship Program, I think what I got from it was most people come and say to me: Oh well, the demographic is, you know, 14 to 25, they’re female, they’re this, they’re that. When I did all the research over the 13 years I was there, it had nothing to do with that at all. It was about their buying behaviour. It was about how the competitors could change their thinking and how you had to address that. Often you had competitors coming in very cleverly assuming your identity, but far enough away that you couldn’t do anything about it legally. You had a whole bunch of issues. And the other thing that also came up was – and you see it often – is marketing that creates demand for a product you don't need no matter what. And I’m always intrigued by those products because how in God’s name does everybody need – particularly with children you can identify it and use examples as well which you see – you know, Transformers or Spiderman or all those sorts of things – and create the need that everybody has to have, even though there’s no need at all. And they’re the sort of products that I think that you should look at and try and place onto your product you’ve got that’s a tangible real product. That’s just my personal thinking.
Jim Taggart: And it’s very valid. And I appreciate your comments, Kerry. Garry, you’re in the finance or financial services arena in a broad sense, very competitive.
Garry Turner: Yeah. I agree with the other guys that the markets are changing. They’re a lot more educated now. If you take the restaurant example that you were talking about before, when you go to a restaurant now, you’ve already looked up the menu. You already know what’s going to be there. So unless their service and experience is great, you’re not going to go back. You can compare them to someone else that offers the same thing. We’re exactly the same. We found that we’ve had to evolve a lot – particularly over the last 2 years. We had a product that we thought everybody wanted. We listened to our customers and realised that it wasn’t exactly right. And the new product is now 80% of our business. We’re listening again, and we’re about to roll out another product. Where we’re finding our market is changing is not only are we getting to markets that we couldn’t touch before – and that’s mainly due to the internet – they know more about us than we do. So they’re already telling us what our competitors are offering, they’re already telling us what we should be doing. They are our research. We talk to our customers and they’ll tell us exactly what our competitors are doing. We do our own market research with our competitors but our customers are giving us the best information we need.
Jim Taggart: And that’s what David was simply trying to say about this absolute plethora of information.
Garry Turner: Absolutely.
Jim Taggart: No. But it’s very important because even Mike Baird this morning on the radio was talking about, you know, getting jobs and all of those as a consequence of these new markets. But I’m just wondering what role Governments play, if any.
Anthony Moss: My perspective I think, again it depends on the level of Government you’re talking about. Certainly from a macro perspective I think the most important thing for a Government is to set the conditions that inspire business so they can create the atmosphere that is either positive or negative. And I think one of the challenges that we’re seeing in the last several years is a highlight on the kind of negative perceptions of what the challenges are in the marketplace.
Kevin Yau: Just on that point, I actually grew up in Singapore. And Singapore’s a country, when you compare it with Malaysia, doesn’t have any resources – well natural resources. And Malaysia’s got all the natural resources. It’s basically just a dot. You know, from one side of the island to the other, it’s 40 minutes to drive. But yet it’s an economic powerhouse. I mean the Government has built an atmosphere which is conducive to business. And you’ve got a lot of multinationals that invest in there, as well as a lot of ex pats that go and work over there, and do so. I mean you compare it to Malaysia which is a country with much more natural resources, much more potential, but yet it’s so much more backward and they’re right next to each other. So you look at the management styles. I mean, Malaysia is renowned for corruption, underhanded dealings and so on and so forth, maybe a bit slow in movements when things need to change – whereas Singapore embraces that. I mean even the Ministers in the Singaporean Government, they get paid about $1 million each. Because they discourage corruption, they want to pay them well and they want to recruit the best talent. So I’m not sure whether that’s a model to look at. But I do understand that, even when they were opening up some parts of China, they were actually going to Singapore and getting some management advice from the Government there as to how they would open up and the best way to do so.
Anthony Moss: I guess my point was sort of – I think certainly at the Federal level, Government needs to be creating that vision, not highlighting the management fixes. And what we get is a lot of highlight around the management fixes. So in running businesses, you know, your staff that deals with it – they’re interested in leadership; they’re less interested in kind of management fixes, aren’t they?
David Pring: Governments I think can become – you know – leading on from that in terms of vision, they can become enablers for business in setting the policy framework at whatever level in terms of encouraging innovation. But it’s the private sector that then will respond to that – to those enablers. And, you know, I think there’s a role for every level of Government to: what can we do to enable – you know – be it the jobs into Western Sydney. What are the barriers that are there and how can each level of Government reduce some of those? Very difficult to get space in Parramatta because, unless you are a large company and can build an entire building…small business needs small amounts of space. Can Governments be anchor tenants to enable buildings to be built so the supply is there, to enable the framework for business, just as an example.
Jim Taggart: Well the reason I asked the question, if I may – and a little bit of history – I just came back from Hungary and Slovenia and Slovakia, and every day I picked a paper up and it was all about innovation hubs. Let me say – I mean, I’m probably biased in my comment, but very second or third or fourth page was about innovation hubs and the pouring of money at the Local Government level and at the Country level, like Singapore and different things like that. So I guess what I was really trying to say was: if I said to you, where are the innovation hubs in Western Sydney? – name them for me. I’m simply saying: we don't have a “Silicon Valley” or those types of things. I’m only just putting that on the table?
David Pring: Just going back to your comment on that part of the world, I worked in that part of the world in the early 90s when it was going through a great period of change. It was an area of heavy, heavy industrial manufacturing – primary manufacturing and that whole transition through to innovation hubs over the last 20, 30 years, is remarkable. You think of Western Sydney has gone through large transformation. But I think a lot of it from the manufacturing point of view as we were saying earlier is to that niche point. But there are fabulous hubs and places of innovation there. They don’t necessarily stand out like a, you know, a Silicone Valley. But if you look at, you know, Health in Westmead, the highest number of computer programmers live in Parramatta. They tend to then you know disperse to where they are.
Jim Taggart: And David, I respect that. Do we have a blueprint for innovation and technology in Western Sydney? And I just raise that as an issue within the context of markets and so on. Or we don’t need it?
Anthony Moss: I mean, business certainly need it; businesses need it. I mean one of the challenges, certainly for small and medium businesses, where I work, is current success or past success is certainly not a predictor of future success. And when I was thinking about the discussion earlier about markets, one of the real challenges I find for business is that their success blinds them to where the markets are changing. And so, often I get involved with organisations that are well established organisations, successful in their particular markets, but they’re finding margins are slipping, sales are slipping. They’ve gone through the business review process and cut out as much as costs as they can from their business. But in reality, what’s happened is the market has changed and people now don’t put the value on their product or service than they used to have. So a real challenge for businesses is to have that internal innovation process, an antenna really attuned to what’s happening to the marketplace – and so, they have to have their own innovation program. Is there a blueprint for innovation in Western Sydney? I mean clearly there was a pregnant pause when you asked that question. And I guess the answer is “no”. Should there be? Should there be?
David Pring: I think it goes beyond that.
Craig Hingston: Getting everyone to agree on the interpretation of “innovation” would be a good start because there are so many different variations on that. I mean that would be a typical example. If you ask what “innovation” is you get about 4 or 5 different explanations about it. All of them have probably got some relevance. But there’s no commonality about what people understand to be innovation and that’s an issue.
Hardeep Girn: But I think also back to markets, you’re going to have those small businesses that have got that great idea. They’re working in their bedroom. You may have those large organisations that have got a dedicated product development function. They spend a lot of time and effort in developing their next product, because they’ve seen that. But I think the bigger challenges that we have – not just within Western Sydney, but across Sydney and NSW as a whole – is how you commercialise an innovation to actually tap into those new markets; because it’s all well and good somebody having that clever idea. But how do you know how big that opportunity is? How do you know that you don't need legal counsel? How do you know you don't need financing? How do you know you don't need, Chamber support? How do you know you don't need the Council? And I think it’s that glue we need, on putting those different bodies together to actually say: Look, if you want to do this, this is how somebody’s done it. Then maybe it is the Chambers. Chambers have got successful businesses as well as those businesses that are coming through to actually say: Look, this is how it’s been done with successful businesses. And Jim, you’re a successful businessman yourself. This is how it’s been done. This is how we can take it. Mentor those small organisations to actually then develop and put proper product development discipline into then developing a commercially viable product.
John Scilly: Can I just come in there, Jim?
Jim Taggart: Please. Please.
John Scilly: Because we’re talking about something which is really top of mind in the Government right now. There’s an organisation in the United States called Tech Shop. Has anybody heard of Tech Shop? Let me tell you about Tech Shop briefly. One of the big issues in the United States is this prototyping, development of ideas, innovation – call it whatever you like. And Tech Shop provides a DIY facility which is like a McDonald’s franchise, if you like, where they’ve got all the equipment in the world – all this innovative stuff with 3D printing and plasma cutting and all the other bits and pieces there. And DIY people can just go in and use this stuff and do their own hobby stuff on it, but also develop prototyping, to the extent that, if they get something which is commercially viable, they can actually set up a small commercial enterprise within the framework of the Tech Shop facility. It’s a brilliant idea. And they’ve approached us about coming out to Australia. Now when you start looking at that sort of facility out here, do we have enough DIY people in there? Probably not. Do we need partners associated with it? Yes. And we’re now looking at getting Universities and so on, and everybody else involved in that type of thing - but providing a facility where people can actually try out this stuff, to the extent that if you are an SME and you want to know about 3D printing, you get one of your staff and you put them on a course, which is a bit like the gym membership. And he goes along and learns all about 3D printing. He learns all about that and takes it back to the factory. So the pay-off for you is the fact that you’re getting all the expertise that this guy’s got back and utilising it and comparing whether in fact 3D printing might be right for your particular organisation. It’s a great idea and it’s something which is going to be developed I think maybe in the next few months or so. The big issue of course, Jim, is that recognising – getting Government to recognise, you know, the need for innovation and then getting some sort of plan. We don't have one, I’ll tell you. We don't have a plan for innovation. Everybody talks about it. You’ve got these little bits and pieces all around the Government that say: Innovation – this that and the other. But it’s no plan about it at all. This is all done by hit and miss.
Jim Taggart: Lori, please?
Lori Modde: Just on that, because we brought this up just before we started our meeting today about the number of stakeholders involved in Greater Western Sydney. If I start at the Government level, because that’s where this question started, you’ve got – every single Government department has an element of Greater Western Sydney in their portfolio. Do we even talk? No. So it’s getting a whole Government approach. The stakeholders can be an obstacle. And I suppose it comes down again to the Local Government level where we’ve got 42 Councils that they’re trying to hopefully make into 12 or 15 Councils. That is another obstacle. But I know from the Local Government sense and in going back to the previous question as well, our support with development of business is at the grass roots level because that’s where we are. And we are there to provide tools, resources and education to make informed decisions. We’re also to help set the scene for better business in whatever aspect that is – if it’s in planning or making use of space – I would hope that it’s to facilitate innovation, but in partnership with State Government and Federal Government for that. But you know there’s three things that I’d say of all businesses as soon as I walk in: If you want to be successful in your market, there’s 3 rules. The first one’s to know your market. The second one’s to know your market needs. And the third one’s to know your market expectations. And going back to that research research research. And that’s why evolution has to take part of any business – because if you’re not in that market and understand that market, you’ll never really be in that market.
Hardeep Girn: I think the underlying opportunity for all businesses and for local Councils and state based Councils is a lot more communication. I think that there are wonderful ideas that are being generated from each different pocket of business and within Councils. I think there’s that interaction with organisations such as Business Chambers that have got those clever people who have signed up and actually want to meet with other prospects, to then help them. And I know, Lori, you’ve got the Hills Council Small Business Expo coming up. You’ve got ATO there and you’ve got, the Sydney Hills Business Chamber with a stand there. But if you really truly want to get to the global marketplace, we don't have Austrade there. So I think they also need to come into this because they need to understand that there is something wonderful and exciting happening within the Western Sydney area, that there is innovation, and to help them commercialise it. Austrade have got those showcase opportunities where they’ve got now dedicated facilities of a whole floor in Beijing, China where they actually can take prototypes that you mentioned and have them on display to Chinese manufacturers and say: This is innovation from Australia. We’ll licence it. We’re probably not going to manufacture it. But would you be interested in seeing what we’re doing that’s here in Australia. The best bit is, this centre is within one of the main commerce provinces in China. That’s a great example.
Craig Hingston: We’ve got the facility. We’ve got the mechanism. But the business community is lacking in their confidence. Sometimes it’s the confidence that drives them.
Jim Taggart: Alright. Thank you. David Elliot has just joined us. Welcome David thank you very much for being here. David, we’ve been talking about new markets and there’s been some quite strong dialogue about a whole range of areas – and for those who may not know, David is the current member – the State Member – for Baulkham Hills and many other things – Parliamentary Secretary to the Premier. Being in your position allows you to see a lot in terms of other countries and situations.
David Elliott: Let me tell you: if you ever want a case study on how to manage an economy, it’s John Key (New Zealand Prime Minister). He’s nailing it. And for us in NSW, he’s our benchmark now. It used to be: Are we beating Victoria? It’s not Victoria. Victoria’s a basket case and it’s going to get worse now that they’re canning that motor infrastructure project and going to be spending half a billion dollars not to have a road. Whereas John Key – he’s nailing it. And he’s lucky that he’s got a majority in the Parliament that he’s got. He’s lucky that Local Government is with him. And so, the only other sphere of Government that would obstruct him doesn’t do that.
Michael Walls: What do you his success down to?
David Elliott: As a politician – I can give you a political answer – it’s a cult. It’s a personality cult. John Key is John Howard and Peter Costello mixed together. And he’s covered debt. He’s a self-made millionaire. He forfeits the Prime Ministerial allowance because he’s already made he’s got money. And I don't know if you’ve ever been to see him speak. He does a couple of business lunches over here whenever he’s over here. And he’s taken his business leaders on a journey. Their labour market over there – there’s not really a Union movement there, even though that they like their – you know, they’re like Australians and like their long week-ends, and their productivity isn’t exactly – you know, it’s not like Singapore or China. They’ve concentrated on their strengths. He’s cut taxes. But I think, when they talk about business confidence, it’s personified by John Key. He inspires.
Michael Walls: David, if it’s a personality cult thing, and you’re emulating that in NSW, with Mike Baird?
David Elliott: Yeah. Mike Baird is our John Key. You just look at the polling in NSW at the moment. Now unfortunately for Mike, he’s only going to be delivering what John Key has delivered if he gets a majority in the Upper House. So it’s really up to the people of NSW on the 28th of March to deliver. We’re expecting to have a majority in the Lower House, although the Queensland result says, you know, don’t ever predict – expect the unexpected. But if we have a majority in the Upper House or a working minority and we can lease the poles and wires, Mike Baird will be our John Key.
Jim Taggart: Thanks David I want to go to David, the other David and find out about KPMG. Now it’s about helping people grow. It’s a very different dynamic.
David Pring: Yep. So it’s growth and change. So it’s how can we assist companies to do things that they may not necessarily be able to do by themselves. So while we still do all of the stuff around inspiring confidence on Financial Statements and Tax Returns and making sure that people can sleep at night and comply with their obligations etc, we’re looking to empower change and provide companies with that ability to do things that they couldn’t necessarily do by themselves – that they don’t do very often by themselves – in terms of growing businesses, looking for pathways through on innovation, looking to buy, looking to sell, looking to deal with banks in a different way rather than rely on a 20 year old relationship, rather look at what the critical aspects of a banking relationship should be. And then, looking at all of the business models that companies are operating under and looking for ways to do those differently – be it supply chain, be it the manufacturing base, be it the disaggregation of the business and looking at different business models that can add to the bottom line. So that’s pretty much what we’re about. We think about our purpose as inspiring confidence, empowering change in both community, for our people and for our clients. And if we can get all 3 of those right, and deal with that confidence piece and the change piece, then we think the community and our people will benefit.
Jim Taggart: Could you just give a little overview of historically what’s happened? I mean you opened only 2 weeks ago with 40 staff. When I go down there for a cup of tea and read the Financial Review, what’s it going to look like in 3 years’ time?
David Pring: So we’ve got space on that floor for about 100 people. But we’re looking to have 2 or 3 floors in about 3 years. So, looking to add 250 jobs in about 3 years and it’s all around that area of how can we help companies do things differently. So the – you know, we’re coming into a marketplace – you know, KPMG’s got a large number of clients in Western Sydney. But in some regards, we’re coming into Western Sydney as a disruptor. And so, we’re looking at how can we provide high value opportunities early, rather than necessarily pitch.
Hardeep Girn: What are your sales channels? How are you going to get into the marketplace? How are you going to get new business?
David Pring: So a lot of our stuff is around connectivity – so, being connected into the market, into companies, into leaders; so, leaders across business, across Government and across community. And then into the various groups around Chambers etc to enable networks. From a business point of view, we know who the businesses are.
Jim Taggart: Thanks for sharing that because I think that gives a powerful insight in a global player who’s come to Western Sydney about what they’re doing. Garry, let me shoot to you. You’re going to put a new product in the market in the next month or so.
Garry Turner: Yep.
Jim Taggart: What market are you chasing when you’re putting that together and how does that look today?
Garry Turner: OK. It’s probably more an additional offering to our existing marketing, but it was leveraging off advice we got from not just our customers, but referral partners in a product that’s missing in the marketplace. So we have been marketing to small business for a long time on how we can provide them with a finance solution that banks can’t provide. But we’re continually hearing back the gap in the market is more a line of credit type product rather than a loan. We’ve now looked at a way that we can establish something that works with their cash flow that’s more flexible for them and works better for them that nobody else is doing. So that’s where we found a niche market. So it’s not necessarily going to go to a different market to what we’re going to now, but it’s an additional offering to that market. So whilst we are satisfying 50% of the customers we’re talking to, we’re now going to be able to satisfy 80%. This is from our customers, from our sales guys. We listen to the sales guys every day saying: This is what customers are wanting. We’ve done some research on it. We’ve met with a number of different referrer groups and talked to them about the concept of it. And it’s really a gap that we can fill.
David Elliott: Is it unique?
Garry Turner: It is unique. It’s unique that nobody’s going to be doing it the way we do it. And it’s going to be something that’s very easy and very flexible from a small business point of view.
Jim Taggart: Thanks for sharing that. I’m going to throw a question so people really bite at it, I call it burley. I’ll put it in a statement. Price is the only matter in looking in new markets in the distribution of product or service.
Hardeep Girn: So back to David’s expansion into Western Sydney – the reason why you’ve had to differentiate yourself is there’s been a service line that’s becoming more commoditised by way of compliance, and there are other accounting firms that are looking to do the same thing with having more of a management accountant, virtual CFO type of position because they may not afford it or may not think that they want it. So I think that there isn’t a consideration on price for those types of consumers or those types of businesses because they are looking where they can grow and they can have a strategic partner rather than somebody who’s providing operational capability.
Garry Turner: I’ll bite on this one because this is the number one question we get. Every single business we talk to, the first thing they ask us is: What’s your price? Our product, being a niche lender, being a specialised product, we compete against the banks. Our price is nowhere near the bank’s prices. We’re quite a bit higher, and for a number for a different reasons. So with us, it’s about the solution. It’s about how that’s going to fit that business and how it’s going to help that business grow. So price for us is not a major selling point. We have competitors that have come into the market recently, particularly over the last 12 months with a very similar product at a much lower price. We’re seeing customers that went to them coming back to us now. It’s around service and delivery of the product. We’ve been doing this for a while and a big part of our success is our ability to understand a good deal from a bad deal, our ability to work out which customers we want to help and to what extent we can help those. We’re seeing competitors come in doing some crazy sort of deals that are going to bite them. And we had one competitor 2 years ago that came in, undercut the market and is now on the edge of closing down due to their bad debt rate. So whilst price is important, it’s probably understanding the whole value proposition and the solution you’re providing, rather than just price.
Hardeep Girn: The value proposition doesn’t just look at it from a pricing standpoint, but its uniqueness, executives behind the scenes, how long it’s been around, your brand, the way that you’re selling, even the way that you’re greeting people coming through the door.
David Pring: I’d have 2 comments in terms of price. The first one is: price matters if you’re selling a commodity. If you’re not, and you can differentiate, then price is not so much of an issue. The second point though is, unless you’re constantly looking for a different business model that can actually drive price down, then you leave yourself open to someone else who will. So our approach is always to look for: can we cannibalise our own business, ‘cause if we can we’d rather do it than someone else. So I think there’s 2 things on price.
Jim Taggart: We’ve got about 20 minutes. What does the future look like for business? I’ll say whether you’re going to talk about it personally or not, how do you think business is going to look like and react and go forward with vision in the 21st century in terms of markets. Where will the markets be?
Hardeep Girn: I’ll give you an example on something that we’re doing – and I think the KPMG expansion actually fits into that. Our strategy is to connect with multiple Business Chambers and have points of presence wherever we have clients. So wherever we’ve got clients, we’ll end up joining like a Business Chamber to actually get more connected with further opportunities for our own client as well as for ourselves. By following this strategy and helping business enter new markets; we’re creating opportunities from overseas. So one of the things I think David you mentioned was the obstruction on foreign currency – for small to medium sized businesses. We’re actually taking them into overseas markets by mitigating risk and connecting with overseas Business Chambers. And the way that we’re doing it is by having delegations – small pockets of 5 businesses going from, as an example, the Sydney market into the San Diego market in October. And taking San Diego based businesses – bringing them into the Australian market. And we introduce them to prospects, to referral partners and to suppliers primarily sourced from within Business Chambers where we have membership. But what happens is under that kind of an arrangement, by having local businesses who may have an exportable product, they require corporate travel and business insurance, going into overseas markets. And whenever they do land into the foreign market, they’re requiring events management and various hospitality types of services. So while we’ve got foreign based businesses that are coming into the Australian market, you’ve also got local businesses by way of the connections that we’re making having access to those foreign businesses coming into the Australian market to actually take on that hospitality and that corporate events management within the Australian marketplace. They don’t need to go overseas. They don’t necessarily care about the foreign currency at that point because we package it up as part of a solution. So I think with KPMG, what you guys can offer is great for the companies that are expanding well within Western Sydney but also who have an opportunity to go into new markets. KPMG can mitigate the risk that they’re going to have to engage a compliance partner that they don’t even know within their new territory. KPMG has the global brand to go and take them into another state, to take them overseas and actually understand what the tax regime is in that location. And then obviously with, whomever they partner up from a legal perspective, it mitigates further risk. So I think there certainly are those opportunities for the smaller players to get into newer markets and manage that risk. And that’s the exciting part that we’re working through right now.
Jim Taggart: Kerry, did you want to add something there?
Kerry Reeder: I just think (inaudible) interesting – I just had a thought that we’ve got members that say to me: I don't want to grow. And I go: You don't want to grow your business? They go: No. I said: Well why are you in the Chamber? What do you want to do? Most of their request is because they just want to know what’s going on is their answer. So I think that’s interesting to understand. We always think everybody wants to grow.
David Elliott: It’s very lonely when you’re a sole trader or if you’ve got a small business with 2 employees. And so, in lieu of going into a partnership, you join the Industry Association or the Chamber of Commerce.
Kerry Reeder: They want someone to bounce off.
David Elliott: And that would be – yeah, that would be – that’s their professional networks, that peer reviewing.
Hardeep Girn: I think the threat does come into consideration with newer players and other new entrants coming in, and potentially the market evolving without you paying attention. So there is that risk.
John Scilly: Yeah. That’s true. There’s another factor too. And that’s something I find all the time. You go and talk to some of these CEOs. And they say – they say, they don’t want to grow, they don’t want to do this. Some of them are incapable of growing, because they don’t know how to do it.
Kerry Reeder: Yeah, the risk factor. That’s the word.
John Scilly: You ask them for a Business Plan. So, what’s your plan for…? Oh it’s all up here. I say: Well you can’t just have it up there. You’ve got to get it down somewhere, because there’s 10 blokes out on the shop floor there who are depending on you for this business to survive and to keep kicking on. So you can’t just stand still and do nothing. I had one guy say to me: I want to go back into Paint shop. And I said: You can’t. You’ve got all this. You’ve got a 2 to 3 million dollar business. You can’t afford to do that. I said: Either get out of the business. Sell it. Upskill yourself to get the skills now to actually run the business properly, or get somebody in who can. And they’re the issues that are happening all the time out there. But the number – and I think probably one of the biggest issues we have with small business in NSW and probably in Australia today is the fact that the skill of some of these self-made guys is just not up to par. And they’re so busy that they don’t know how to run businesses effectively, because an awful lot of them go out of business.
Anthony Moss: But I’m interested actually on that point from the positive aspect of those people that start those businesses, because that’s actually the seed of innovation, isn’t it? So really, the people that don’t have the skills – you know – but we need to facilitate ways in which they can develop those skills. What we want is that inspiration where people are still prepared to go and do it even though they don’t know how they’re actually going to go and do it. You know. I think that’s the seed of future growth. A couple of comments - I just want to make one point in relation to David’s sort of point – and it kind of reminded me of the Simon Sinek feed.
David Pring: Well we make computers and they help people and Apple said: Well people want to take their music everywhere they go. So let’s create a thing that is a portable music player. We’ll call it the MP3 or the iPod. You know. So they said: What do you want? We’ll go and make one for you.
Hardeep Girn: Can I ask a question, just looking at the important relevance of Business Chambers and the role of Local Council. Where you’ve got somebody within a Business Chamber who’s got that clever product which is unique, and it is quite exciting and they need help. It might be somebody who hasn’t got the experience but who’s got a great idea. They don’t have a good lawyer and they don’t have an accountant. You guys can obviously refer them within your own chambers. But once you know that it is going to be something that is a commercially viable product and there is an opportunity to go into new markets, surely there can be something that can be as a take-away from this whole Round Table, that there’s a handover from local Business Chambers through to Local Councils or to State based organisations to actually help with taking it to the next stage of evolution. There are enough practitioners within these Chambers to say: Look, we can help you with sourcing a supplier within our Chamber. But when you are talking about the Austrades of the world and you are looking at exporting, looking at Free Trade Agreements, then it has to be shifted into another gear. So that’s going to create jobs. So I think that there are those types of fledgling businesses out in Western Sydney. Otherwise KPMG wouldn’t be spending as much money as they’re spending. But they have a global product or a product that can go into newer markets. I think there should be a stronger linkage between what I see as the incubation tank in terms of the Business Chambers to Local and State Government.
Michael Walls: Do you think Chambers are really placed to provide that sort of service?
Hardeep Girn: I think so. What’s happening with the Sydney Hills Business Chamber is a good example. John Lees who’s a practitioner in the sales space – he has sessions which talk about how you sell your product. There certainly is an opportunity where there are key practitioners..
Craig Hingston: So we’re looking at the big picture as a Chamber. We’re a part of the NSW Business Chamber so we can connect our members straight through and get IR support, legal support, export support. We’ve had Austrade and so on come and present – give the 101 class on how it’s done. But then we go to RDA Sydney for example or industry organisations, national organisations that represent our segment, and we’re aligned with those as well. So it’s this sharing of knowledge. All we really become is the portal or the facilitator, because we have trust, because we see these members every month. And there’s a trust aspect. And they say: We’re actually not expecting the Chamber to fulfil the promise. But we know that you know somebody.
Jim Taggart: Ok we’ll need to wrap it up there. Hardeep, on behalf of Access and your business, Know My Business, thank you so much for sponsoring this morning; I hope you’ve got something out of it. You’ve certainly made contacts which I believe is critical. And we’ve had some good discussion about business and new markets and existing markets. The take out for me is really the whole thinking process about behaviour and time. I thought that was really good. Again, on behalf of Michael, I thank everyone and we hope that it’s been worthwhile.
Hardeep Girn: And can I say, thanks for organising the Round Table. It’s a very appropriate attendance and also gives us a lot more opportunities to think about. So thank you for organising it.
Michael Walls: Pleasure. Thank you.
